Good project, I hope that it works out as unbiased as you say your going to.. We don't need another page just saying that Windows is better than Linux.

Linux rocks! Will you be testing it for reliability? This is why we all use linux, it doesn't crash every 2 mins like windoze.

LinuxUser wrote:
Good project, I hope that it works out as unbiased as you say your going to.. We don't need another page just saying that Windows is better than Linux.

Linux rocks! Will you be testing it for reliability? This is why we all use linux, it doesn't crash every 2 mins like windoze.

Thanks LinuxUser, glad you like it.

We certainly aim to be as unbiased as we can. There will be some element of bias in that we are approaching Linux as an existing windows user and looking at the OS as such. This is not so that we can make a judgment on either system being better, it is purely to see how easily a windows user can adapt.

Reliability wise, I am not sure how we can test this. I have not really had much in the way of issues using Windows XP SP3, in fact I can't remember the last time it crashed. Win7 yes, but it is in beta. If you can tell me what steps to take, I will consider it. But I can't tell you through observation if Linux is more reliable than Windows, only if it is noticeably less reliable than my very stable XP install.

Hello Blair and Derek,

I've read your post on Ubuntuforums.org, and I support your idea. I applaud your tenacity and willingness to throw yourselves into the deep end! Before you begin, please make sure that you don't give up at the first roadblocks.

As a beginning Linux user, there inevitably will be times when a particular problem seems unsolvable.

However, unlike Windows, where "if a problem is unsolvable, learn to live with it", almost all problems in Linux (especially if they're not hardware compatability problems) are fixable!

I will be monitoring this forum time and again for your questions. If you need to contact me directly, feel free to use the contact form at ubuntu.kareeser.com

Thanks very much for your kind words. Its great to have a friendly supporter that we can turn to.

We don't intend to give up on this one, though if it takes us longer to complete, we will give it the extra time (I left a caveat in the brief to let us extend if need be)

Seems at the moment all I do is read about linux. Doing as much homework as I can.. Got several distro's downloading at the moment for eva purposes, thanks to suggestions on the ubuntu forums mainly.

This project isn't doing something that's relevant to most MAINSTREAM consumers, who do NOT install and configure their PC operating system. The mainstream consumer will visit a retailer (online or local shop) and choose from whatever Linux-preloaded PCs are advertised. Non-commercial Linux is irrelevant, except to avid PC tinkerers.

This experiment also seems to disregard that brand-name PC makers (e.g. HP and ASUS) have developed THEIR OWN Linux desktop environments, effectively creating (or forking) new Linux distributions. Those customized desktop environments essentially define/image the targeted end-user.

Sure sounds interesting - since you have been windows users for all the major interface transitions (pre-95, 95, Xp, Vista/7) I suppose that you will not be scared by changing something as superficial as the interface.

I would however strongly recommend a KDE-based distro with a central management tool (OpenSuse and Mandriva comes to mind - beware of the gnome version of OpenSuse - YaST in Gnome is a dog!). The KDE generally follows the "logic" of windows more closely and will not feel as alien as other environments - and it is in general more polished and beautiful.

An advantage with OpenSuse may be that you also have lots of things pre-installed to help you interacting with a windows-centric environment.

Gentlemen,

Good luck and good show! I too, have recently completely deleted my Windows partition in favor of going "straight linux" (Fluxbox Mint CE) and I cannot say how happy I am to finally have 'cut the umbilical chord'. Linux Mint is an Ubuntu-based edition which aims at pretty much what you fellows seem to be driving at; user friendliness, range of applications, low to zero command-line needs. But regardless I have no doubt (once you've settled on a choice), that you'll be pleasantly surprised at what you find.

But mostly - and here's the kicker - you'll find a community which will greet you with open arms, encouragement and help - honest, free and neighborly help - to beat the band. In my experience of 20-some-odd years of using MS programs, that was a rare thing to come across indeed. Not so now. Again, good luck and welcome.

I praise your upcoming effort and am eager
to follow its progress.

I have a reservation concerning one point about
application compatibility, specifically targeting
Photoshop. I have been completely free of
any MS operating system since even the early
days of Linux distros, but I do have a MacBook
Pro with Lightroom for my photo processing.

I'm curious to know if your intent is to use
applications that are direct replacements for
their Windows counterparts? If so, then I would
say the project is already lopsided, since there
is no direct replacement for Photoshop.

Yes, there is the GIMP (somewhat close), but
lacks much of Photoshop's feature-set. There
is also Bibble, which I use on Linux, but it
will certainly not be familiar to a PS user.

Thanks - looking forward to the project ...
mjt - author, "Inside Linux"

I'd like to suggest you use Linux Mint, or Sabayon. Sabayon is definitely the worse choice of the two for a netbook though, I'd imagine. It's the most bloated Linux distro, but you do get a lot of applications and games installed. I'd say it's the default installed games that weigh it down most (last time I used it, it came with the demo of Quake Wars: Enemey Territory, Nexuiz, Warsow and others )

Either of those two distros will offer you the best out of the box functionality, but Mint will definitely be the faster of the two; something to take into account for netbooks. Mint is based on Ubuntu, but it focuses even more on usability, and is the best for Windows refugees. I'll let their website speak for the features www.linuxmint.com. Can't remember if they mention it or not, but it also comes with media codecs for everything - they like to draw attention away from that though so they don't get known as "Ubuntu with codecs".

For MSN Messenger, I have two suggestions. aMSN is a very feature-complete MSN client, however I find it to be pretty ugly (no matter how good the skin is), and you'll probably have sound issues with it. If you're after a zero-fluff MSN client, Emesene is the way to go. No voice clips, winks or voice chat. Webcam may or may not work for you, it's still experimental. The main developers of Emesene are focused on Emesene 2 at the moment, however the community still develop Emesene 1, and their version is much more advanced than the official 1.0.1 release. Make sure you go to the forum and get Emesene-Crazy, the community edition. Not hard to find, it's the big news post in the middle of the page .

Gentlemen,

First off let say I wish you luck and if you run into a snag please email me any questions you have and I will do my best to assist you. I must say that I am a KDE user so if you opt for a Gnome desktop then I won't be able to give you click by click instructions but I should be able to get you headed down the right path.

As a person that started out on Windows in the early '90s and then began diving into Linux just a short 10 years ago I will state that a month is probably not going to be enough time but rather give it two. The reason I say this is that your mind becomes conditioned to the Microsoft way of doing things and I have little doubt from your backgrounds that yours are 100% full tilt. You will find yourself having to think about and resist doing what are now automatic reactions to tasks you perform in Windows. Unlearning the Microsoft way (as I like to put it) shall be your biggest hurdle.

As a side task please attempt to record the number of times you find yourself saying the following:

"why doesn't this work"
"this shouldn't be that hard"
"why did they do it that way"
"in Windows I just do this"
"how come there isn't a UI for that"
"Linux should add <fill in the blank> feature from Windows"

By the end of the experiment and if you have successfully reconditioned your mind the above questions should have all but faded away. You will find yourself (as I have) searching for Windows ports to such gems as GREP since the Windows search facility is horrible. You will wonder how you lived with only a single desktop for all these years. (or wonder why the power pack isn't the default) You will also find yourself asking "why do people pay $$$ for program X when this one does the same job but it's free?" since there are thousands of nifty programs just a click away.

However, I must state that your "basic user" experiment isn't likely to expose the full benefits of Linux but it is a start and I am encouraged you are giving it a go. I say this simply because every comparison such as this one is putting the chicken before the egg. As a rule you will find that long before anyone had a Windows PC in their home they were required to use one outside the home.

Much in the same way Microsoft got its start and slowly penetrated the home market Linux too will only begin to penetrate the home in numbers via the corporate path when average users are required to use Linux as part of their job. Unlike Windows (DOS I should say) Linux isn't competing against the paper based spreadsheet but over time users will become comfortable with Linux since they will have the same support structure (help desk, etc.) they did when they first began using Windows but they'll be kicking and screaming the entire way just as they did with Windows/DOS. I do admit this scenario generally only applies to the average user and not the enthusiasts.

Cheers!

i doubt if this experiment will succeed, as the essence of Linux is helping yourself/knowing the basics rather than entirely relying on software for carrying on your life.

For example, i can easily compress files in Linux with "tar czf newfile.tgz *" in console (by simply pressing the uparrow perhaps 2-3x), wheres it will take me some time and a number of mouseclicks to use an external application.

However, that the user chooses not to know the basics is an unrealistic assumption. It will not help people in the long run.

- raffy mananghaya, philippines

As you say, it should be an interesting project.....

I hope you are realistic about what you will achieve in just 31 days especially when you consider you've got 30 years worth of accumulated Microsoft know-how. There is no substitute for experience!

I started using PC's in the mid-to-late '80s at university and have been using them ever since. MS now dominate; today if you ask someone if they've got computer experience you are really asking "do you know how to work Windows and Office?".

But I think Linux is a worthy alternative, I started with Linux about 6 or 7 years ago, dual-booting my XP box, and gradually came to use Windows less and less. Last year I ditched Windows in favour of Kubuntu (KDE works for me) but have installed VirtualBox so I can fire up XP and Vista if needed, my clients use Windows so it makes sense.

I will follow your project with interest, I'm sure you will ask if you have any questions or want recommendations.

Good luck!

Nick

Telic wrote:
This project isn't doing something that's relevant to most MAINSTREAM consumers, who do NOT install and configure their PC operating system. The mainstream consumer will visit a retailer (online or local shop) and choose from whatever Linux-preloaded PCs are advertised. Non-commercial Linux is irrelevant, except to avid PC tinkerers.

I agree entirely the mainstream user would behave as you describe. However, to test how someone like that would adapt to the change of operating system would require recruiting a mainstream user and then bank rolling them to purchase the linux machine of their choice, or providing them with Linux systems to use. I think considering the resources available, this seems a rather reasonable project.

Bossanovawitya

NickElliott wrote:
As you say, it should be an interesting project.....

I hope you are realistic about what you will achieve in just 31 days especially when you consider you've got 30 years worth of accumulated Microsoft know-how.
Good luck!

Nick
Nick, your wrong. No one accumulate Microsoft know how, but everyone using Microsofts products accumulate a lot of experience in dealing with MS bugs and faults.
I change my system end of last year. Now i am a proud owner of an UBUNTU-Installation and it works. 98% of applications - or better functionality - i used with XP now is available on Linux.
My main applications are digital imaging, geotagging, music and video.
I didn't miss anything.
But one of my main conclusion is,
abondonment of MS didn't make any pain, its like to be healed from addiction.
And, the best of it all, it's free.

I would like to say thankyou to everyone who has responded in the forums so far. Lots of good suggestions

Even Sinicism is welcome when presented as eloquently and politely as it has been so far.

Whilst we have not answered every post, all are being considered and fully expect that you will see their influence in the articles that we write.

Blair

falcon wrote:
No one accumulate Microsoft know how, but everyone using Microsofts products accumulate a lot of experience in dealing with MS bugs and faults.

This fact alone is what's most important about the switch. Using Windows doesn't necessarily give you any advantage over the average joe. When switching to Linux, we often find that the playing field is levelled.

What's more important here is your "stick-to-it-tiveness". Linux can become infinitely customizable, and a trade-off of that customizability is a decrease in user-friendliness.

So you also have to look at Linux applications differently as well.

Furthermore, there are also some unsolvable problems with Windows' construction. For example, I've never been able to saturate my LAN on Windows. It would always top off at roughly 1 megabyte per second. I can reach my full 100Mbits transfer capacity on Linux.

Testing for reliability is easy. Just see how long you can go without having to restart. I've been running a Linux machine at home for 120 days, 54 minutes, without rebooting. If it weren't for a recent power outage, that number would be closer to 196. I've been updating it and everything, too. Linux rocks!

admin wrote:
I would like to say thankyou to everyone who has responded in the forums so far. Lots of good suggestions

Even Sinicism is welcome when presented as eloquently and politely as it has been so far.

Whilst we have not answered every post, all are being considered and fully expect that you will see their influence in the articles that we write.

Blair

where do we go to see your results from this?

i'm always curious to see how others take to linux, for what reasons they try it out etc.

keen to read your next articles.

be as thorough as u like.

~i started with linux after giving up on windows when XP the big fat bloater came along. people seem to overlook that xp was a greater increment of hogging your resources over previous windowses than vista was over xp. besides being marveled and wowed by novel's suse linux's yast (yet another system tool) which gave me confidence in "linux" being a refined product, not the rag-tag hobble-it-together-yourself nerd test, what most gave me reason to stick with linux in my first month, was the speed. not just the speed, but how much i could throw at it, and it would still be fast. it was faster than win98, let me do more for my ram, let me do filters and other long processes faster. my flatmate at the time had a PC with stats generally around 4 to 8 times the stats of mine, running XP was choking at not even a tenth of what i was doing. ... i needed no more convincing.

what got me really interested though, was the writings in the philosophy page of the GNU/Linux page. the proprietary model just didnt have a chance. a pocket of people making software because their paid to, against an entire userbase of people making software because they need that software, or are just passionate about it... yeah, i knew which way the tide was turning then and there when i read that.

heh, sry, i just love telling that story.
... and like i said... looking forward to hearing yours too. even if it's a harsh critique.

The articles are building up, just click on the "A room without windows item in the side menu to see the latest...

www.ayetea.com/a-room-without-windows/index.html
oh, right, got it,. nm.